Talking It Out About Communication with Craig Hughes

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Misty: Not long ago, I was driving home, and on a whim, I just called one of my sons. Now, this mama doesn’t get to talk to her sons on the phone very often. But that day, he picked up, and for over 20 minutes while I drove, we just talked. He caught me up on life, asked me for counsel for him and for his wife, and I just got to be present with him.

One of those conversations you tuck away and you treasure in your heart. I got home so full, so excited, and I sat down with my handsome hubby, Craig, to share all about the conversation. As I started telling Craig about this beautiful moment with our son, he kept stopping me. “Well, where was his wife? Why wasn’t she home?

What time was it?” And I felt frustration rising because to me, none of that mattered. I wasn’t sharing details, I was sharing connection. And he was chasing after facts while I was still holding on to the fullness of the feeling. That, my friend, is what we are talking about today

Hey there. Welcome back to Mom2Mom Mentoring. Whether this is your first time or you have been with us from the beginning, I am thrilled you are here. Mom2Mom Mentoring is a weekly podcast offering soul-nourishing wisdom for Christian moms who desire peace, presence, and purpose in the midst of all of life’s demands.

Whatever season you’re in, beloved, you do not have to carry it alone. I’m Misty Hughes. I’m a mom mentor, I’m a ICF certified life coach, and a fellow mom that’s still figuring it out right alongside of you. 25 plus years into helping women move from overwhelm into God-aligned rhythms of peace.

I am the originator of the Rhythm of Life Framework, which is a framework that simply helps moms move out of that space of overwhelm develop life-sustaining rhythms that keep them in peace, presence, and purpose. Now, If something in today’s conversation provokes more curiosity, causes you to want to inquire or continue to converse about something, please come and join us on our Facebook group, Christian Moms in Business and Ministry. Or you can grab my free Rhythms of Renewal mini guide.

The link for that is in the show notes. Now, today I brought back one of my favorite communicators, my husband, Craig Hughes. Some of you met him a few episodes ago, and that conversation was one of our most listened to yet. So I wanna tell you a little bit about what’s coming. Over the next four, five weeks, I am re-releasing some of the most loved episodes in the Mom to Mom mentoring history.

The ones that you’ve commented on, you’ve told me they changed something for you. And we’re kicking it off today fresh with Craig on two things that show up in almost every marriage, the way we communicate differently and the daily choice to assume the best in each other Now, before we [00:04:00] jump in, if you’ve been sensing that you are running on empty in more than just your marriage, I wanna invite you to my Becoming cohort.

The wait list is opened 12 weeks of group coaching built to help you develop these real sustainable rhythms, not just survive your season, but become who God is shaping you into. I’ll share how to join that list at the end of the episode.

 Hey, Craig. Welcome back to the mic. As we dive into today’s conversation, I would love for you to share an example of where you realized that we may not be on the same page in our communication

[00:04:52] Craig: I think maybe this gets more into assuming the best or assuming- Mm

the worst, but it also ties into communication, too, I think. And I, I think the most recent example I can think of, and this is a minor, minor issue, but sometimes those minor issues tend to become major. the other night we had had our granddaughter all day at the zoo, and then all day at an amusement park, and we got home, we felt connected, we were doing well, but we were exhausted.

Mm. And I think out of that exhaustion, you had left the lights on downstairs. Who? Me? Of course you. Which, again, we know that’s kind of a minor issue, more major for me than it is for you. I did not wanna go down 10 steps and back up just to flip the switch to the basement light off, but you were already crawled up into bed and very content.

So my first go-to, my first assuming the worst was, “Well, she does that because she knows I’m just gonna go behind her and turn the light off anyway.” So that irritated me, and I said something to you, and before I knew it, we were disconnected after having a great week with our granddaughter, and being very connected and grandparenting together,

And you wisely said, “I’m too tired to talk about this now, so let’s, let’s table it until the morning.” And we did, and we talked about it, and I realized I was wrong, and I had assumed the worst. And, um, yeah, turned around. I- w- we settled it within minutes, I think.

[00:06:39] Misty: I think we can cover both the ideas of assuming the best and communication in that little story that just happened that, you know, I could say in my, uh, spiritual language, that I love to use, I could say, “Oh, God gave us that little story because He knew we were gonna be doing this podcast episode-“

and we needed something fresh and new to talk about.” Wasn’t that kind of God? let’s land in the area of communication for a minute, what would you say that you did well in that scenario as far as communicating?

[00:07:22] Craig: I didn’t do well at first. I communicated what I assumed, and that assumption came out of my exhaustion, and I had let my guard down. And but what came out of it was actually turning that around and assuming the next day, or knowing, that you didn’t do this on purpose.

You just forgot. It’s a very simple thing, and at that point I realized I was wrong. I apologized. the more you apologize for something, the better you get at it. Mm. And you know over the years, I, [00:08:00] starting out in our marriage, I wasn’t the greatest at apologizing. But you’ve helped me learn to utter sincere apologies for very specific things, and I think I did that there.

So that’s one good thing that came out of it.

[00:08:16] Misty: So can I commend you on something else in that whole scenario? Of course. Of course. I think one thing, that I’ve been trying to consider more, dealing with something in real time

you typically will not share something like that. You’ll just let it fester, and then the next day I leave the lights on, and it builds, and it builds, and it builds. And so the fact that, you did address something that was frustrating you, that you were, quote, “not assuming the best about”, and you brought it out.

And so you shared that, and I think there have been a couple times just in the last few weeks where I’ve been trying to practice doing that better. And we’re in this six plus years, and gosh, It just takes time to peel back the layers. But I know that there’s been a couple things that I’m like, “In my mind, this is what I’m believing about you.”

Yeah. “I believe, I believe that you did A, B, and C because of A, B, and C. Is that true or not?” And you’ll be like, “No, that’s not true.” But it’s been so helpful for me to apprehend that lie, that assuming the worst early on and let you speak to it instead of going in that spiral. So I say all that to say you did that And even that night, after I said we probably shouldn’t get into this conversation. I came back and I did say, Just so you know, I did not intentionally leave on that light to irritate you.” I was shocked that-

the light was even on. I had no clue that- Yeah … the light was even on.

[00:10:23] Craig: And I know that’s the case most of the time. But when your defenses are down, either through exhaustion or other frustrations- you’re gonna sometimes assume things you know are wrong. I think it’s just an example of- how easy it is to fall into that- Yeah … and to create those stories in our own mind.

Um, can I share a story? Sure. Okay. so you all know, Craig and I both use this journaling app called Rosebud, I’ve mentioned it on here before, I will put the link to Rosebud in the show notes if you wanna explore it on your own. But it’s AI generated, and they’ve worked with, counselors and psychologists and all of this stuff,

So you journal, and then Rosebud responds to your journaling and often asks deeper questions to help you. But the thing I love about Rosebud is it can access journal entries from back in March or the beginning of the year, and it will remind me, “Oh, you were dealing with this same thing-” Right … “six months ago.”

 in preparing for this episode with you, I, I tapped into Rosebud’s memory because Misty’s memory doesn’t work that well. and it reminded me of this silly little story about the bidet, and you probably don’t even know this story because it was in my journal, but we have-

Can you talk about that on this podcast?

A [00:12:00] bidet?

[00:12:00] Misty: A bidet. So we have a bidet, and we’ve enjoyed it, but my daughter- Oh … has a Cadillac of bidets. It’s got a heated seat. The water is heated. It is like a, um, massage for your derriere every time you sit on it. so I have secretly longed for a nicer bidet than having cold water shot at me, but it’s not something I’ve shared with you because I’ve already assumed in my mind the worst. I’ve assumed that- It’s gonna be about money and not comfort. I’ve assumed that I know what you’re gonna say, I’ve assumed that you don’t care about me and my comfort. I’ve made all of these assumptions in my mind already.

Mm. And I’ve allowed myself to feel resentment towards you- Mm-hmm … because of the assumptions that I’ve made about what you’re gonna think, feel, or say, and I’ve never even talked to you about it. Mm-hmm. That is a classic case of not assuming the best. you’re the one that brought this idea into our marriage, this idea of assuming the best.

Do you remember?

[00:13:33] Craig: Gee, it came out of-

A podcast, I believe,

it may have been Andy Stanley.

[00:13:38] Misty: you shared it with me. Yeah. Like, this was early on in our marriage. It was, yeah. Like, this was at probably within the first six months of our marriage.

And I was like, “That’s brilliant, but that’ll never happen.” And we’re still working on it. where have you seen growth in assuming?

[00:13:56] Craig: For me, I’m trying to catch myself in the moment and question, what’s the real assumption here? Is it really true? And I’m not good at that, but I am getting better, and I think this latest example about the light is one example.

I got there pretty quickly.

[00:14:15] Misty: What helps you catch yourself

[00:14:18] Craig: you’re not asking questions I’ve prepared for. Okay. That’s a good question. I think I have learned to ask myself the question, what story am I telling about myself and about your motivation? And is it possible, here’s the key question to me, is it possible there’s another read on the situation that’s much more generous? And if I can keep that in mind and shift my focus on that, usually it gets me out of that rut

[00:14:45] Misty: Craig, why do you think we do that? I don’t think we’re the only couple- No …

that does that. I think that is a problem

I think most couples, I could say every couple, but that might be offensive to some,

has a built-in mismatch somewhere. it might be the way they process or the pace of life they lead. It might be the way they handle conflict. A lot of couples don’t talk about it out loud. They don’t, communicate.

[00:15:24] Craig: No. They bury it, and it builds up, and the frustration, the

resentment in particular starts building up.

[00:15:31] Misty: And so this, what we’re doing here and why I feel like we’ve tried to do in our marriage, and it may not always be in real time or it may be after a big explosion or whatever, but we do try to, offer each other understanding.

We do try to come back in. We do try to listen to each other, and sometimes it’s hard, especially when the emotions [00:16:00] are there. And what we’re doing today, we’re just talking- … openly about it. We’re not fixing it. This is not, me fixing you or you fixing me or us fixing anyone else.

 neither of us are experts on relationship, right? I know I’m not. But we’re learning. We are. And we’re in it together. And that’s one thing I do love about life with you is- You say yes to the growth and you say yes to the learning, and

[00:16:37] Craig: Yeah, I used to think you can’t teach an old dog new tricks, but I’m not doing that any- I still am in it for the learning.

Yeah. The rest of my life I’ll be learning. Yeah. That- And I think that’s important … I’ve long tried to live by the old Stephen Covey, uh, saying, that seek first to understand, then to be understood. I’m not great at that, but I always come back to that, and that helps me.

Even though I may not understand you, I seek to understand you so that then I can respond in understanding. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:14] Misty: And also, if we want to be understood, we have to be willing to offer- Right … understanding. as far as our processing, where have you noticed that the different ways that we process has caused the biggest challenges in our marriage?

[00:17:39] Craig: Well, as I mentioned before, I’m an internal processor. You’re definitely a verbal processor. sometimes when you verbally process, you will talk in this whole circle and actually follow a rabbit trail and I’m taking all this information in, and I get to the point where I’m… got overload, and I just wanna walk away and just process and put it all back together.

That’s not a bad thing, but you’re not done. When I get to that point, you may think that, “Well, he’s checked out. He doesn’t care.” I’m assuming that’s what you think. Um, but I do. I need to take it away and tear it apart and put it back together so then I can understand better. So that makes- Does that make sense?

[00:18:31] Misty: That makes total sense. Yeah. Okay, so this feels like

a new twist on conversation, and so go with me here. Okay. So what, what needs to happen in that scenario?

[00:18:52] Craig: Again, I think it’s a matter of understanding, and I do. I understand that you need to talk it through. the other part of that too is I need to stop and ask questions, I need to get clarification about certain things, I need context sometimes. But often when I do that, I’m interrupting your flow of processing, and that’s something neither one of us has figured out.

Mm. And I get frustrated because by the time you’re done, I’ve forgotten what questions. I remember stuff really good from 60 years ago or one minute ago, but beyond that, I’ve lost it all. So it gets frustrating for me to be able to put some context around what you’re processing, and consequently, that’s when I start to check out, I think.

[00:19:43] Misty: Okay. I, I hear you, and for those listening, this is real time, real conversation, we might get into something here. We’ve talked about this. So, so yeah, I know. So what would help [00:20:00] When you need to step away and process something

[00:20:06] Craig: I think I just need to say it, and I think you’d be very receptive to that ’cause you do understand I’m an internal processor.

 to stop in the middle of the conversation, if I’m overwhelmed and need to take it away, I can say that, and I should say that.

[00:20:20] Misty: Right. So that’s what I was

thinking too. Yeah, and you won’t be offended by that. No. Uh-uh. I don’t think so.

[00:20:26] Craig: But my fear there is also what happens to your processing. You’ve been processing out loud, and all of a sudden I’ve shut you off. Where do you go with that, and is that fair to you?

[00:20:38] Misty: Well, I think we just have to figure that out. then in the process, one thing I’ve realized is the way you process and your need to take your time, look at every angle, I mean, we could talk about something as simple as the roof we just got, right?

Like, to me it took you six years to decide to get a roof. No. We didn’t need one. Huh? We did… I was waiting for that great hailstorm. And so your process, sometimes trips me up. It do- I realize that, yeah. There’s this place where I just need to step back and let your process be your process. Give that to you. And if I get tripped up and tangled, frustrated, whatever it is, that’s my problem, isn’t it?

[00:21:49] Craig: I realize that it trips you up sometimes, on

 we’ve talked about one aspect of communication is the way we process verbally versus- Internal

internal, and how in our marriage we have tried to honor each other in the way that they process, but also how it easily entangles us, because the other doesn’t process the way that we do. So what are other communication differences, similarities that you have recognized over the six years of being married to me?

And one of my top five strengths is communication, and so communication is really kind of important to me. You think?

So what’s the question? The question is, what other… So verbal process, internal process is a communication style. What other ways have you recognized that we are different in the way we communicate? I need to go think about that. No. I

Something I have realized in you, and something I truly appreciate with you, is that you tend to look for the positive, and I’m more of a half empty kind of guy. I recognized both of those aspects early on, I value that in you to the point where now I can start looking more for the positive instead of the negative in any situation.

 I don’t know if that’s a communication style, but it definitely affects how we communicate. And I think also, I, in particular, over the course of our marriage, have become aware more of how emotions play into communication. I entered the marriage thinking basically emotions, you can’t trust them.

They’re just a woman thing or a sissy [00:24:00] thing or something. Men don’t have emotions. They don’t let them affect you. But that’s such a false lie I’ve learned, and God created emotions for a reason. And now I learn to listen to my emotion and dig down deeper. Why am I feeling that way? What’s the source of it?

Is it really Misty, or is there something else going on? And that has really… Y- you talk about assuming the best, that has really played a big part in me changing from assuming wrongly.

[00:24:33] Misty: emotional intelligence is definitely valuable in a marriage, in intimate relationships, both people pursuing and growing in emotional intelligence.

That’s for sure. How have you grown in your ability to communicate with me?

 I’ll share mine. I’ve had to grow in my ability to communicate because I can’t use as many words with you. Now, I won’t say that I don’t use as many words, but I know if I want to communicate something in a way that you’re going to understand and not get lost, that I have to step away, I have to think through- Mm-hmm

and I have to communicate with brevity instead of, “Oh, I want you to hear my heart in this,” because you get lost in the heart because you’re trying to connect the dots as we go along. And I’m like, “Oh, don’t worry about the dots. Just hear my heart,

So I’ve had to learn how to, communicate, and I didn’t do it very well with just this mantra I just went into just now. I’ve had to learn how to communicate clearly and concisely. In bullet points. So that’s one thing that I think… I’ve also had to learn, and you call me out on this a lot, I have this deep need to be heard.

And when you’re sharing something that I maybe don’t agree with or I have a opinion about it, then I interrupt. I think an area of growth that I’ve had in this whole area of communication is intentional listening Because when you’re with someone 24/7, which we’re pretty much together a lot even though, we’re doing our own things, it’s easy to just, assume that you know what they’re gonna say or what they’re gonna think.

Right. And you’ve already formulated something in your mind. So this listening is, like, the most valuable part of communication, and it’s the one that we as humans do the worst. And so being married to you, doing this podcast where I’m interviewing people, I’ve had to really press in to listening, and that’s something as a coach just sitting in that space of listening, I think that’s been a real area of growth for me probably in the last five or six years with coaching and marriage and, doing the podcast and interviewing.

[00:27:41] Craig: Yeah, and I think it goes for me, too. I also have learned to become a better listener, and am still striving towards that

I think early on I did interrupt a lot. I learned to back off on that so that you can [00:28:00] continue your processing

I think the real me, the real Craig, lives in that quiet place, and sometimes I find myself acting out listening instead of really listening. it’s almost a performance When I’ve listened so far, and I’ve heard s- the same thing.

It’s no different than when I’m listening to a sermon. If the, the, if the preacher isn’t making a bullet point here, here, and here, but if he says the same thing three different times, I’m done. I’m done listening to him. Just say it once to me. I’ll get it. And there’s times when I act like I’m interested in what you’re saying, and I am.

It’s not that I’m not interested, but I j- almost just can’t take in anymore. So I’m almost like a performer acting like I’m interested, and I’m well aware of that, and I’m trying to do just what you talk about. What in here is really revealing the heart of Misty? So I’m trying to get back from performing and acting like I’m really listening to truly listening and truly, truly trying to listen to the heart

[00:29:11] Misty: Well, that’s interesting. So that being said, Should I stop and ask you sometimes, are you performance listening?

[00:29:22] Craig: I think you may know it. I, for me That’s exhausting to act out something I’m not really doing, I’m not an actor. So yeah, it leaves me exhausted sometimes. So maybe that would be a good question, just say, “Are you really listening?” Call me out on it. Uh-huh. And I think I would actually welcome that, and that’s when I can interject, “Misty, I, I…

can we take a break? I need to think about all this.” Mm-hmm. “Let’s get back in an hour.” Yeah. Then, then you can continue your processing.

[00:29:56] Misty: Okay, you all have heard this. You’re, here with Craig and Misty, the listening audience, as we wrestle through still growing, and developing and looking for ways to stay present when we’re communicating with each other and listen and stay engaged.

these are important things that we’re talking about, and it just makes me wonder what your conversation looks like with your partner, with your spouse, even with maybe your adult kids. Are you having these conversations about the different ways that you communicate and trying to understand each other, in the fearful and wonderful way that your partner is created?

 and so I, I hope that some of what we’re talking about, even though we’re just sitting here talking about it, we don’t have any solutions. We’re… like I said, we’re not counselors, we’re not the experts. We’re just a man and a woman that are broken and are trying to figure out, what loving each other really looks like, what supporting each other, what loving God and growing in oneness, what all of that looks like, and how to move the needle forward just day by day by day.

so I say all that to say, check in on us. Check in on us and see how we’re doing in that space of listening. Am I giving Craig the freedom and the space to step away from my verbal [00:32:00] processing when he needs to- Process, I think that’s a really good area of growth for me. is he being honest and authentic with himself and with me

about when he’s performance listening, and so we need to take that into account? So these are all areas of growth that we can explore together, and you guys can check in on us. okay, what else? I…

[00:32:33] Craig: it just occurred to me just 15 minutes before we started recording here, you know, one of the things I really wanna learn to do is to listen to your heart.

 You just shared how you want to improve in communication, and probably for me, the biggest thing that I want to improve in is learning how to listen to your heart. Oh, and not just my words. And not just your words. And ladies, as a man, we don’t listen to hearts as well, and we’re pretty surface-oriented But I know the importance of listening to a woman’s heart and I wanna do that better But it just occurred to me fifteen minutes before we came in to do this recording that Misty pointed out to me that I had listened to her heart over something, and I was able to verbalize what I was seeing and hearing and feeling.

But it didn’t come through conversation. It came from me processing on my own. And I really believe that’s God speaking and allowing Him to speak and point out things. So I think a big part of listening with your heart, is listening to what God is saying in a certain situation or a certain conversation we’ve had

[00:34:04] Misty: just the fact that you are saying that’s a desire of your heart, something that you want to pursue and be more intentional about. Just hearing that melts my heart and causes me to love you. you know, that book that I don’t like, Love and Respect, how a woman wants to be cherished.

But hearing you say that feels Like you’re cherishing and honoring and loving me well. and so that just does all kinds of things in my mind and emotions, towards you. so one of the things that I consistently pray is for God to show me how to love you well. Because it’s like you said, God is really the only one who really, really knows you. Mm-hmm. And He’s the only one that really knows what gets to your heart. and so I think probably what you’re sharing about is one way God answered that prayer for you, is He showed you my heart and, you discerned some things that, I was feeling

But one thing that God has recently been speaking to me about is He’s using the words creatively love you What’s that mean? I don’t… I’m exploring that, Ike. I’m asking what does it look like to, love Craig with my creativity? Hmm. That could be fun. I know, so- Or it could be dangerous, too. So anyway, that’s something, fun

I think one of the first things I did after I got [00:36:00] that was like, “Hey, we’re gonna do this for dinner tonight, and we’re gonna do this for dinner tomorrow night.” And they were new recipes, “And we’re gonna have this kind of wine with dinner tonight, and we’re gonna do this tomorrow night.” And so instead of, “Oh, here’s your meat and potato,” it was a new recipe and new things.

 it can be as simple as something like that, uh, using my creativity to love you, because when I cook for you, that’s a expression of love. Absolutely,

[00:36:30] Craig: And when I cook for you, and it’s an expression- Oh … of love, too.

[00:36:33] Misty: Oh, man. I feel so loved every Tuesday night when you cook for me. Okay.

As Craig and I always say, we are not counselors. We are not experts. We’ve been married six years, and we are still learning what real connection and communication mean, both individually and as a couple. And if today showed you anything, I hope it’s this: no matter how long you’ve been married, there is always room for growth in the way that you communicate, and always room to shine a little brighter in how you love each other.

One thing I’m carrying into this week from our own marriage, his process is his process, and my entanglement is mine to manage, not his to fix. After we recorded this, I came across an interview with a couple who does marriage counseling and this podcast goes so much deeper than Craig and I were able to today.

 I want you to have real tools and resources to keep growing, not just this conversation. I’m gonna link it in the show notes, because wherever you are in your marriage, there’s more to learn, and more grace available for learning. The episode is on the podcast called The Speakeasy: The Secret to Couples Who Are Still Crazy About Each Other.

And if you haven’t c- caught the drift, that is a desire and a goal that Craig and I both share Now, if this did stir up a desire for you to grow, not just in your marriage, but personally for yourself, grab the Rhythms of Renewal free mini guide. It’s built to help you set your mind on things above, to focus on what is good and true, and develop the personal rhythms that keep you rooted no matter what season.

You can find it all at mistihughes.com/resources. And if you’re sensing that it’s time for something deeper than just a free resource, the Becoming cohort wait list is open now,

It’s a place to discover the beautiful woman that God created you to be in a sustaining way, developing the rhythms that facilitate real growth and restoration for your soul. Join the wait list at mistihughes.com/becoming. Beloved, your marriage, however new, however seasoned, however imperfect, is designed by God to radiate His beauty and His glory.

Matthew 5 puts it this way “God is not a secret to be kept. We’re as public as a city on a hill, meant to keep open house and be generous with our lives.” Wherever you are learning to communicate, to assume the best, to stay present with the people you love, let it be seen. Let it shine. [00:40:00] Over these next several weeks, you’ll hear some of the most loved conversations we’ve ever had on this show.

But here’s a little secret. After this Best Of series wraps up, Mom to Mom Mentoring is heading into something brand new. I’m not gonna tell you much yet, but stay close. Something is shifting, and I think you’re going to love it.

I’m Misty Hughes. And I’m Craig Hughes. This is Mom to Mom Mentoring. Now, go shine, because when you shine, you give others permission to shine, too.